Saved, Single, and Sexually Satisfied?!

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My hubby recently showed me an article written online by an “annonymous” single person who says she’s saved and having sex without regret.  She boldly writes (if you consider annonymous authors to be bold),

I’m single. I’m saved (as in born-again Christian). And I have sex.  Unapologetically.

The name of the article is, “Single, Saved, and Sexin’: The Gospel of Gettin’ Your Freak On.”   (To read it, click the below screenshot.)

I welcome comments from everyone about this article.  First, here’s my comments.

In general, I felt the author’s perspective mirrors the world’s perspective on this very issue.  I saw no distinction.

(By “world,” I simply mean what the Bible means when using that word:  people who are not followers of Christ; unregenerated.)

  • John 3:16-17: For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.  For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world , but to save the world through him.
  • John 15:19: If you belonged to the world , it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world , but I have chosen you out of the world . That is why the world hates you.
  • John 17:14-18: I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world.  My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of it.

On the other hand, I appreciate the author’s transparency and authenticity regarding the “struggle,” because it’s real.

I was “saved and single” until age 32 when I got married.  (Here’s my “testimony” on waiting.)  So I can relate.   But the bifocals this author uses to view her fellow single saved sisters who are “staying strong and waiting” seems to be the same eye prescription of the world:  I want what I want when I want it.  (Or in the words of my friend’s 4-year-old son, “Waiting is not awesome; it’s so hard to wait.”)

I also feel the need to define what I mean by “saved” which may differ from the article’s definition.  To me, being saved or being a Christian is not a casual, “I believe in God.”  (After all, even the demons in hell believe in God!  Read James 2:19.)”

On the contrary, it should be a belief so strong that it impacts your entire lifestyle, your way of living and thinking.  We are all sinners saved by grace, those of us who are “saved.”  We are not sinless.  We just sin less.  And we have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.  That’s the missing ingredient for a lot of professing Christians who attend church regularly believing they are saved simply because they believe in God.

It seems this topic remains of interest, even explosive in some Christian circles, decade after decade, particularly if “masturbation” comes up:  is masturbating wrong or right, for single or married people (that’s a whole other sub-topic).  Most people are pretty dogmatic about their views one way or the other.  But this discussion about being “saved, single, and celebate” has often led me to wonder about Bible Days, the time period upon which the Bible was written.

In Bible days, people were often married before they even hit puberty. So this issue wasn’t much of a  dilemma then since there wasn’t massive unmarried people with a need for sex who couldn’t satisfy that need.

(I use the word “need” because a single friend of mine pointed out that people tend to use the word “need” for married people but characterize the same need as a “desire” when talking about a single person.  But really it’s a God-given need He created in all human persons.  Sex is so much more than about procreation, even from a biblical standpoint.  Sex does the body good!  God created it to feel good but also be medicinal on many levels: physically, mentally, emotionally, and even spiritually.)

Far be it from me to say that the God-inspired Word is not relative to the cultures of today’s world.  I can hear a preacher booming now, “God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow!   Can I get an amen? His Word never changes.  God is good alllllllllllllll the time!”  True.  But we must remember to practice good exegesis and be hermeneumically correct (yes, I went to Bible school).  Is the original intent and context of the Bible authors who wrote about these topics still applicable to a society where the average person doesn’t wed until late 20s and early 30s.  (I’m playing the devil’s advocate here!)

So I open up the floor.  What are your thoughts on this topic?  What do you think about the article written by the annonymous author on The Crunk Feminist Collective website?  (By the way, this is only the first article in a series that the Crunk website is doing.  Not sure if the other articles will be authored by (professing) Christians or what the other points of views on this topic will be (for or against sex outside of marriage), but should be interesting nonetheless.

P.S.  If you see any weird or crazy books advertised below this post, please know that I’m trying to get that fixed!

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  • Warrior Princess

    interesting…I ain’t mad at her. Like you pointed out, I say like Chris Rock said when OJ made a fool of himself, “I understand.”

    God knows I do. I’m probably the pathetic deprived Christian chic in her head as she was writing. No, I’m on her powerpoint presentation as she turns this into a book and presents on Book TV. No No….I’m the illustration she gives on the couch at the Monique, Wendy Williams, or Oprah show.

    Oh, I understand the struggle. I’m coming up on 15 years of celibacy.

    Although, what she doesn’t understand is that although she may be right about some Christian women’s motivation for “holding out” in the name of God, she is wrong about why a sister like me is so motivated.

    I would like to testify that my celibacy is NOT about me holding out for God to give or do something for me. It is NOT so I can impress others with what appears to be spiritual strength and fortitude. My celibacy is simple–a love offering to God.

    It’s about me realizing my value and worth–tangibly valuing my body. I’ve made myself an offering to God because I’m persuaded He is real and worthy of this type offering. Although, my surrender/devotion to God is undisputable in this area of my life, I’d be remissed if while bragging on God keeping me here, I didn’t point out that there are other areas where I’m not so surrendered and quite a contradiction. :)

    That disclaimer on the table, one of many reasons I’m so motivated in my celibacy is there is much imperical evidence that I did NOT think myself up and position me into existence. Therefore, I’m persuaded that I’m made for someone. That is I’m made for something more than this world, alone, offers me in its pleasure.

    This Christian woman is different from the crop this author runs with. And I have 14 years of evidence and a cloud of witnesses who testify that at least in this area–I’m walking what I’m talking, by His grace.

    So what am I missing by not having sex outside of marriage?
    1)those nagging fears of contracting STDs–visiting clinic for AIDS test every 3-6 months. Saving the emotional and financial cost of such behavior.
    2)freedom from the emotional trauma of the “temporary” intimacies that come with having only a sexual and uncommitted relationship with someone
    3)receiving the fall out of the spiritual energies (e.g. demons, idols, attitudes,) of people I’d be randomly sexing
    4)freedom from the heartbreak and drama that is likely to occur as a result of falling for someone who is only interested in a temporary intimacy with me–sex and friendship but nothing more.

    I’d love to be having sex with someone who adored me and thought I was irresistable….but I have too much respect and fear of God and love for myself to take that kind of foolish risk with my body.

    So I rather, do what I’ve been doing for 14 years. Waiting….and trusting God rather than being moved by the haughty words of man–who has proven their folly and stupidity through out the ages–via their choices. These 14 years have NEVER been a DUTY for me (easy NO–temptationless–NO) but a pure love offering. God has incredibibly hidden and kept me from being overtaken by temptation.

    I leave with a quote I heard today in the context of education and the rewards of persevering to study and work hard….I think it can be flipped a bit to apply in the context of not unleashing your inner sexy before it is time. The quote said:

    “Nothing is FUN until you are good at it.”

    Well, in this case, I suspect that

    “How do you know what’s worth waiting for until you’ve waited?”

    Wisdom trumps foolishness. God supplies all my needs–even when I don’t know what I need (Phil 4:19). So ya girl is trying to be in retirement from foolishness.

    Playing it Safe in Christ,

    Tish

  • Cherry

    OOO MMM GGG! That was the best poison ever! And she seemed educated, and it sounded poetic! I’m literally SMHing! The realest paragraph is the first one. The Rest is a mess! So many things I wanna say. I just can’t believe what I read! In a nut shell she said, because it’s difficult to wait and not waiting makes her feel guilty -then “waiting” must be wrong. I’m literally pausing in between every sentence in disbelief.

    She said the church is not preaching the same message of celibacy to men but Jesus said, “If a MAN so “LOOKS at another women to lust, he’s already committed adultery in his heart. He never mentioned that the man in this example is married (I believe adultery and fornication in this specific text are viewed the same: sex outside of marriage.)

    CHECK THIS!!!

    Hebrew 11:24-26
    By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

    Lastly!!

    Romans 3:3-4
    What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it? May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, as it is written, “THAT YOU MAY BE JUSTIFIED IN YOUR WORDS AND PREVAIL WHEN YOU ARE JUDGED.”

  • http://web.me.com/aspeaks/Site/DM.html Avril

    Honestly, I’m not mad at her. I’ve been where she is. I’ve been a believer for 16 years and it’s been an ongoing struggle to practice abstinence. I prayed, I fasted, I starved myself of all secular influences, I even begged God to take the desires away, to no avail. I still found myself involved in sexual activity. I would ask God for forgiveness time and time again, but the guilt was heartbreaking. After failing so many times I started thinking maybe the church had it wrong. I went down the road that the author went and just gave in to the desires. While I eventually turned back around and realized that I was just trying to find excuses to justify my behavior, I still think this is an issue that we as a church body need to look at more closely.

    I mean, how DO we reconcile the fact that people in the Bible were married at a very young age? And how do we reconcile that for people who are over 30 and still single? I see many women in my age group struggling with this question. And yes, the Bible does say certain things about celibacy and adultery, but oftentimes what comes from the pulpit is a different message. I agree with the author that messages about celibacy and abstinence are usually geared toward young women, not young men.

    I know that no one on here will probably agree with much of anything the author has to say, but we need to start having conversations just like this with women in the church. The amount of single, Christian girlfriends I have who end up pregnant and then stop going to church altogether tells me this. I can say from my own experience it’s no good having to wrestle with an issue like this alone because you’re afraid of being judged or ridiculed by other believers. And not feeling like you can talk openly about the problems and frustrations becomes a problem in and of itself. Healthy conversation breeds understanding.

    Thanks for posting, June!

  • Warrior Princess

    Avril said:

    I can say from my own experience it’s no good having to wrestle with an issue like this alone because you’re afraid of being judged or ridiculed by other believers. And not feeling like you can talk openly about the problems and frustrations becomes a problem in and of itself. Healthy conversation breeds understanding.

    Warrior Princess says:
    I agree with everything you said Avril. I hope my post didn’t sound like I’m judging the author or I’m on some plateau. I’m being kept.

    And what discourages me is in talking to other believers (not suggesting you), is they look at me like I’m the alien–like God’s Word can’t be true when it says He keeps us from falling. What if there are believers who are experiencing this for real in this area of their lives? So it ultimately comes back to a faith/unbelief issue. Not to minimize the natural struggle at all…I can share more of my struggles privately if you’d like to email me.

    That said, I do own that I am judging the mindset and behavior described by the author as foolish and risky.

    Also, I agree with you that the Church is largely silent as many women in the Church have become so “prudish in the worst sense” that they can’t even hear the heart of your plea or the frustration of the author.

    You should know that my initial response to June was private and I was very candid in my comments. I forgot that when I gave her permission to post it on my behalf.

    When I read it was like whoa–that’s too much. I was afraid of being thought too loose (when my celibacy testimony above proves I’m anything but) by some Christians coming here to read. So I reworded some thoughts.

    I also changed it because I thought it best to prevent myself from being a stumbling block to any male reading.

    I point this out to co-sign your observation about how the Church, at large, is not ready for these graphic discussions and contradictions about sex and all its forms–from masturbation to adultery.

    From a positive angle of sex and Christian women, June and I found a ministry where some Christian women are very open to talking about sex in the context of their marriages and encouraging young wives in this area.

    Not sure if you are married but I’d be happy to share it with you privately as I feel posting it here publically could cause some to stumble.

    But from what I’ve learned of the site thus far it is encouraging to the married Christian woman. I don’t recommend it for single women but I only suggest it in this case to prove the point that there are women discussing matters of sex–very directly.

    And specifically they have some posts on masturbation that address many of the common objections to it.

    So thanks for commenting…..

  • http://web.me.com/aspeaks/Site/DM.html Avril

    Tisha: My post wasn’t directed at you or anyone else. Just sharing my experience that that was a very sad time for me in my walk with Christ because I felt that I would be judged. You bring up a great point about the faith/unbelief, and ultimately that’s what turned me back around, actually. I finally realized, at the root of it all, that I simply did not have a belief that I was someone worth waiting for. And I did not have a belief that God would send someone who was willing to wait or willing to encourage me to wait. I started meeting married women whose HUSBANDS were the ones to say “NO. We are going to wait until we’re married” while they were dating. When I heard those stories I said to myself “I want that kind of love. And I’m willing to wait for that.”

    That’s so great that you guys found a ministry that openly discusses. I’m glad someone is having the conversations. We need one for singles. I’m not married and this issue is becoming sort of a sore spot with me because of my experiences and seeing my fellow sisters in Christ go down a different path because no one will talk. I feel like in some churches it’s become the elephant in the room.

    It is a difficult subject to broach, and yes, we don’t want anyone to stumble but at the same time we don’t want anyone to stumble by not telling our story either. It’s a fine line that I can’t say I have the answers on how to solve. I made a film a couple years ago attempting to address this issue and spark conversation (http://web.me.com/aspeaks/Site/DM.html), but outside of that, this is really my first time publicly acknowledging my own struggles, and it took me a long time to click send–lol–but I’m glad I did because we need the dialogue.

    But it is amazing how silent we remain on the real issues in the church…

    Thanks so much for your response and God bless!

  • Jayne Marie

    At first I didn’t know what to say in reply to this. I’m not exactly strongly opinionated about this article. I think it’s more because I’ve recently made peace with the issue of sex and marriage and all that as I’m waiting for my turn, so my mind is just in a different place. I’m not really dealing with this anxiety right now (as in today lol).

    There are some thoughts that did occur to me:

    #1 This did not shock me. I just wish she hadn’t shared it with the World Wide web where people can think this is their answer. I’m glad she shared her mind so we can talk about it but some people will take this as the “gospel truth” because this is what they want to hear. I wasn’t shocked because I have friends who feel this way. They’ve witnessed and lived this life and did not enjoy it. So, they worked out their own thing. To be quite honest, it got to the point where I couldn’t say anything because I was suffering from depression and boredom. I had nothing to offer them. You can have peace w/ God, just not w/ yourself??? AND I tried it their way. I was not built for that. I’ve carried mental and emotional scars from those bad decisions. I like God’s way WAAAAAAY better. For me it’s not about sex, it’s about relationship, intimacy, acceptance, building something together, having a partner, being able to give love to someone else. Sex is not a replacement. HONESTLY, scriptures are great and all, but that’s the truth I have to remember when I get weak.

    #2 I’ve spent a lot of my life in condemnation over EVERYTHING. But it wasn’t from God. Though I knew the Gospel and shared the Gospel, I didn’t really understand Grace. As an adult I learned that Grace is not just for saving us but for keeping us and that it’s not just for 1 time but that it’s for the rest of my life. And while I knew that I couldn’t earn grace for salvation, I suppose I really believed that I could forfeit it every time I sinned and then I’d have to ask for it back. I don’t believe that any more. I believe that God chooses to make his Grace available to me all the time. It’s always there whether I ask for it or not. So, I don’t walk around afraid of God now. Instead of feeling distant, I feel close and loved. Which surprising is why I have fewer desires to sin. I was always afraid that if I believed in “that kind of Grace” – you know free, always present grace – that I would go buck wild. I was trying to save myself or keep myself saved by my works. Now I just enjoy grace and focus on growing in other areas spiritually instead of worrying about not sinning. And this is hard for me because I am a bit of a guilt addict. As it applies to this article, I agree that we as Christians need to shake this guilt addiction, but I also believe the the Bible teaches we aren’t supposed to use this grace as an excuse to sin… BUT the fact that Paul said to not use freedom as an excuse to sin, means that it is possible for some to do that – but I think in the end they’re deceiving themselves. Do you love this world or do you love the world to come? Do you love yourself more than you love God? It’s like a lover’s triangle and some people who are saved are still trapped in a tug of war over their affections. I’m not saying that as one who’s obtained. There are things I have to still have yet to say no to.

    #3 She said: “For so many women, the biggest faith struggle of their life has been ‘believing God for a mate.’ Year after year, these women serve, pray, and live chaste, believing that God just requires more faith, or alternately, that God is still working on them.'”

    That brings up a question that I wrestled with a couple of years ago as I watched Godly women turn late-50’s and never be married because they didn’t compromise and one friend who’s turning 40 and is a virgin. Is it God’s will for every woman to be married children? Are some of us never supposed to be married? Obviously, some of us are never supposed to have kids, though GOD COULD open the womb of a 56 year old virgin on her wedding night, I guess. I honestly understand this woman’s frustration seeing Godly women do it God’s way and not see the pay off. Truthfully, a lot of Christian life looks lame -> wait on Jesus to come back, wait on your husband, wait on God to open doors, wait on God to lead, wait on God to tell you where to live or work, etc. I have no problem waiting on Jesus, I want him to come quickly. It’s the other waiting that sucks…

    Oh disclaimer: I don’t believe there’s any Biblical grounds in turning “He that findeth a wife” into a doctrine of “waiting to be found” because that teaching not supported by any other scripture and can be refuted by the book of Ruth OR the fact that God brought Eve to Adam and didn’t bring Adam to Eve, and culturally (historically) marriage was an arrangement usually taking place between parents (e.g. Sampson or Issac & Rebekkah)

    SO, I don’t put that stress on myself. Furthermore, I’ve heard more than my share of “God said you’re supposed to be my wife” from men who are now married to someone else. My God doesn’t permit polygamy if for no other reason than because it goes against the laws of the land. Plus there’s no Biblical precedent that God allows women to marry more than one husband. ;-)

    But back to my question is it God’s will for every woman to marry… The year after I started asking that question, a number of Christian women I knew began revealing that they were in abusive marriages. They struggled with the idea of divorce because God had told them that he was supposed to be their husband. Were they wrong? Do they need to question everything they thought God said to them? Add to that my Christian parents divorced after 25 years and 2 kids. Were they not supposed to be married? Was I not supposed to be here? So after my depression about that, I came to this conclusion. God has a perfect will, but so many people in the Bible managed to mess up anyway (Abram, David, Moses — and they weren’t under grace) and from then until now God has a knack of fixing human mistakes. He knows that we are but dust. Thankfully. I’m not saying that as an excuse to go do something stupid or un-Biblical but I just don’t sweat it anymore. I’ve spent a lot of time not using my gifts and not pursuing dreams because I’ve been waiting and unsure what God wants and all that. BUT NOW, forget that. I’m taking the Ruth approach. God knows I need to work, eat and pay bills, he knows I desire to love someone and he knows what he called me to do. Ruth just did what she had to do. She didn’t over spiritualize it. She just went to work. She didn’t fast and pray about who’s field to work in, she just picked one and went to work. And guess what? God was in control he didn’t have to scramble and speak to Boaz about buying the field she was working in. In her making a decision, she actually walked out God’s desire and provision for her. It wasn’t like there was a sign. She didn’t know HE had provided until she was already receiving the provision. SO, as for sex, love, marriage, career, ministry, etc. I’m just going to live with integrity. I have the Holy Spirit in me, he can lead and correct when and as necessary. I don’t mind waiting; I do mind being wasteful.

    Finally, This is what I’m saying now at age 29 going on 30 this year. I DO NOT know what I’ll be saying at 39 going on 40. Praise God for my sisters who are holding it down at that age. For me, I have a lot I want to do in life and I plan on adopting older children anyway so getting married later doesn’t phase me in terms of my family desires, but I cannot promise you or anyone that I will compromise along the way. I strongly desire to love someone, to comfort, console, encourage, wake up to, cook for, even be domestic for a deserving man who desires God’s best for me too. I want marriage. I want a full, enjoyable life where I can touch a man legitimately and enjoy more than just his company and mind. I’m just being really, real here as someone who’s professed Jesus for 25 years, I would honestly start thinking I got it wrong. I would probably marry whatever nice guy I know at the time who’s still available. I’m not single because I don’t know nice men. I’m single because I don’t Godly who I’m interested in that want to marry me. I don’t want to marry an ungodly man, unfortunately though I’ve been treated the best and with the most respect by men who were not save when I first met them. In fact there are only been 4 men who did not pressure me for sex. 1 was in high school & lived in another state. he’s married now. 1 was a guy of a different race and lived across the state. He didn’t fit what I was typically attracted to but his relationship w/ God was attractive. He’s married now. The other 2 weren’t saved when i met them, but very respectful, encouraging, kind, smart, strong, and everything a woman would want in a husband except they don’t love Jesus.

    #4 last point. What about the men. There are many women who want to get married and many Christian men who are putting off marriage, playing the field, dating unsaved women or whatever. Some of them have unreal expectations of women from the world… I want to know why they aren’t marrying Christian women, but then there’s the whole issue of do we as women want to go back to shaping our lives to “catch a man?” Is it OK to be ourselves? We should want to lose weight for ourselves, but should we spend our lives obsessing over body image to catch a man, then keep a man, and keep other women away from our men??? I wish I would! Talking about these issues w/o including men in the church is pointless. They contribute to the reality we single women live in. They allow the brothers they know to disrespect us. There’s no culture of stepping up and being a man. They don’t face pressure to get married. They pressure women to have sex (yes, women pressure men too). They choose women w/ weak morals instead of dismissing them for moral women. They refuse to date women in their church.

    The problem is any discussion we have in the church isn’t geared toward problem solving but just venting and turns into a blame game.

    I know I said a lot, but I hoping this will be my final conversation on this topic. It’s exhausting. And right now I’m more concerned with what I’m doing while I’m a wake rather than what I’m doing while in bed.

  • Jayne Marie

    Oh I forgot the most important thing I actually wanted to say about the article. The real problem is the attitude of Sarai. Sarai encouraged Abram to do what was necessary to produce the life that God promised them. But I don’t think she thought of that alone. When Jesus was tempted in the wilderness, satan offered Jesus things he needed – food and his purpose in life – to take back the kingdoms of the world – ALL without the suffering. Then he tempted Jesus by first taking him to a high place (building up the challenge) and saying if you are who you say you are/ the Christ (question of identity, position, and relationship w/ God and his Holy Spirit) throw yourself off this cliff BECAUSE SCRIPTURE SAYS, God will order his angels to take charge over thee. — I think this is the biggest problem/ temptation… You’re a Christian, you walk with God… let’s cause you to question who are in, your purpose, what God promised, how God wants to work in you… let’s build the problem up but denying you something for a long time — Don’t you want to jump? If you confess your sins he’s faithful and just to forgive you? Remember you’re saved by grace. You’re free in Christ right?

    *SIIIIIIIGH* Then there’s Jesus’ reply. Thou shalt not put the Lord thy God to the test. Why that one Jesus?

    So then we have to develop these things dichotomy that no one else in the world has seen – hoping, trusting, believing, having faith, wanting, desiring, denying what’s permissible but not beneficial… all while waiting, being patient, going through long suffering.

    I’ll be honest. I feel a little hoodwinked. I was told about waiting for Jesus to come back and I get that. Generations before us waiting on Christ with expectancy. I still do and I still believe. But I wasn’t told about waiting on a husband or anything else. And like I said, a lot of times it can feel like the Christian life is saying no to everything while waiting on something no one has ever seen before — OR in this case, we know there are such thing as Christian men, but who’s to say that God’s going to give you a husband? And the reality is you don’t know one way or the other. You just know how you’re supposed to live. You also know that in the meantime you’re not fulfilling the other reason why your were created as a woman.

    I don’t know that I’ve come to peace with God on the fact there are women who love him and serve him and live their lives for him… and they’re closing in on menopause. They are dealing with the fact that they won’t ever give birth in the natural. But at least they have spiritual kids, what every woman dreams of. I don’t know he lets women hurt like this… a whole generation of Leah’s – unwanted women. But God is more than enough right? As is the unmarried woman is more spiritual, righteous and holy than the married woman because she is 100% satisfied with God and not distracted by or feel the need for anything from a man??? lol sounds like Christian feminism as taught by a nun. I don’t know. I don’t understand – why did certain women have to be raped in the Bible w/ no restoration? Why did women have to go through what Leah went through or Judah’s daughter-in-law, or Dinah, or any number of women in the Bible? There’s no spiritual answer for that makes it ok, It’s just what happened. As for what’s happening. I don’t know why women are going through prolonged singleness… heck, a lot of the bags we have to shed before we get married wouldn’t have existed if we were married at 18. I wonder if men believe that they are still single because God is working on them? I admit I have things God is working on, but thanks be to God my Father who loves me, I have friends who helped me see 1-God loves me and 2-I’m not as messed as I thought I was. I really thought I was single because I wasn’t holy enough or good enough for one of God’s sons or because I was too messed up to be in a marriage or something. But looking at ALL the married couples I know – no matter what you fix about yourself, you still have to work and adjust and compromise and grow and learn and give and let go ANYWAY. So, now… I just believe that I’m single because I’m unique w/ a unique purpose and so I can’t just be w/ anyone. As I move toward my purpose at God’s pace, I won’t miss him, my future husband.

    For now I’m OK with that. Again though, I don’t know I don’t know if I have enough in me to overcome “hope deferred” at the age of 50. I’m not ok with thinking God doesn’t love me or care about me. I don’t want to take things into my own hands. It’s funny, Leah spent her who whole life unloved and kept having babies trying to get the love of her husband, but never did. Eventually she had to come to terms with it. Again, I have no answers for this situation though – we live in a fallen world.

  • Cherry

    Quoting Jayne Marie:SO, as for sex, love, marriage, career, ministry, etc. I’m just going to live with integrity. I have the Holy Spirit in me, he can lead and correct when and as necessary. I don’t mind waiting; I do mind being wasteful.”

    Gurrl Thanks for sharing your heart-you are the bomb! so deep. I love it-everything you said.

    And for that matter every thing others have said on here has been real.

    The comment I made was originally private just between June and I as well.(with my permission she posted it ) Now while I wont take it back, I will say that I hope I’m not being misunderstood. Let me clarify. No one has said anything directly-but a few but have written something like “unfortunately people are not ready to have these discussions in the church..due to judgment etc etc. I hope I don’t seem judgmental. My irritation though, is with the authors justification of her actions-believing that she is right. And as someone else said,her need to share it with WORLD.

    I understand her point of view as well. I’ll be 30 this years-and I’m practicing celibacy as well. It’s not easy when tv, radio, books, magazines people etc are all selling sex. The thing that seems to be forever left out is the person of Jesus Christ-the real person who -though seat on a throne has the ability to satisfy and fill a heart completely-The Bible tells me that HE is my portion! We lack intimicy that no husband will ever be able to bring! EVER! The PLEASURE will only come from oneness (of fellowship) with Christ. Paul said I want to know him in the fellowship of his sufferings (the lowest of low points) and in the power of his resurrection (the highest of high points) The “in between” with out a doubt is covered as well.

    I’m all about conversations and having these things out in the open (using wisdom and discretion) but I’m not about compromise (not saying that anyone said they are on this page), A little leaven really does spread..and it messes up everything. The harshness that Jesus spoke with when he said “if something causes you to stumble cut it off” is the fight and mentality that I desire to walk with. Paul said no good soldiers entangles himself in civilian affairs, in order to please the one who enlisted him.

    I love you guys with his love even though I don’t know you-I just really love and appreciate the brethren-we’re all in the fight together. I do pray for more compassion but I also pray for a soldiers mentality as things get darker these days.
    God bless (sincerely)

    Cherry

  • Nykki

    Great response, June! I read the original article first before I read your response. Here is the response I posted on the Crunk site:

    _________________________
    Wow! Just…wow!

    First, I think you are a gifted writer. Yet, as a fellow sister in Christ and born-again believer, what you write about in this post grieves me to no end.

    Your bottom line seems to be that you are free to fornicate. This is a LIE. While you have the ability and freedom of will to choose to do that, to believe and promote the notion (whether privately or publicly) that celibacy is something that is archaic and oppressive and designed to control women is just plain wrong and poisonous to the Body of Christ. God designed sex to be within the confines of a marital union, partly as an expression of His intimacy with His Body, the Church (born-again believers). There are other reasons that He designed the sexual union as well (pleasure in the marriage relationship, procreation in the marriage relationship).

    I have been a born-again Christian for 16 years, having been saved at age 23. I did not marry until I was 35. This means I had several long years of singleness, trying to remain sexually pure (i.e. celibate). I failed at this significantly for various reasons–all of which were based in my refusal to deny myself in a particular moment. While my desire for love and connection were good and God-given, my response to that and my attempt to meet my needs on my own terms (playing “god”, much like Adam and Eve in the garden), I faced the consequences of that. One of those consequences was guilt.

    Yes, I felt guilt like you used to as well. You allude to your source of guilt being the “conservative Christian” belief that sex outside of marriage is wrong. That “conservative” belief is based on the Bible, which says that it IS wrong (i.e. sin). The guilt is, at a basic level, from the Holy Spirit. Part of His ministry is to convict us of sin (John 16:8). Therefore, in choosing to do what you want to do “unapologetically”, you are making a choice–perhaps in an effort to rid yourself of this guilt–to ignore this conviction and helping others to justify their choices to sin as well.

    If you were someone who does NOT say they a born-again believer, this could just be another article with which I disagree. However, you ARE a believer and, sister to sister in the faith, I must speak the truth. You are promoting things that are contrary to what the Bible teaches, thus bringing reproach to the God who wrote the Bible. My sister, this should not be so.

    While I understand what you are saying–and can identify with much of how you’ve felt/thought–I can unequivocally and unapologetically respond in this manner. It is a LIE. Fornication is sin. Giving into fornication will NOT bring you a husband or an ultimately satisfying union–regardless of what you believe currently.

    The reality is that some of us will NEVER be married, which is unfortunate. However, this does not entitle us to fornicate because it is too difficult to deny ourselves. Christ denied Himself when He came in the flesh. That is what the Christian life is about–BY THE POWER OF GOD’S SPIRIT within those of us who are believers, denying the lusts of our flesh for the sake of righteousness. Is that ridiculously difficult and seemingly unattainable? Yup! But that’s exactly why He sent the Holy Spirit…to help us live this life (and that we do by faith). Yes, our sins are covered under the Blood of Christ, but that doesn’t mean we just tap-dance on grace and live like we want.

    Trust me, I’m NOT coming at you as if I’ve arrived or something. I definitely hear you. I’m married now and enjoying the full expression of my sexuality with my husband, but those single years were difficult at times in regard to trying to remain pure. Many times I failed miserably. I even tried to do what you’re doing, which lasted for only a few months. I thank God for the conviction that drew me back to Him whole-heartedly.

    Read the Word and believe it, sis. For real. Please stop promoting this lie because it is anti-Christian, anti-biblical, and anti-God.

    Matthew 16:24 AMP – “Then Jesus said to His disciples, If anyone desires to be My disciple, let him deny himself [disregard, lose sight of, and forget himself and his own interests] and take up his cross and follow Me [cleave steadfastly to Me, conform wholly to My example in living and, if need be, in dying, also].”

  • http://www.junesjournal.com June

    Ladies, thanks so much for joining in on this discussion. I’m really enjoying the dialog. My heart wasn’t to bash the author in any way or to judge her salvation, although I did think it was important to define what “saved” means to me as it seems to greatly differ from the author’s definition.

    Thanks to Tish and Cherry for giving me permission to share your comments that you sent to me privately and I hope that at least one woman in Christ out there, seasoned saints and babes like, is encouraged by the responses of many of you. Encouraged that there are others struggling who haven’t thrown in the towel. And encouraged to know the Christian walk is not easy. The narrow path is harder than the wider one. But Father God knows best!

    By me linking to the author’s article, it pings that site, which means persons visiting that site can connect to this one and read our comments. As Avril pointed out, this issue can be the elephant in the room that many churches won’t discuss. Shhhhh they say. Don’t talk about it. So young (and old) ladies struggle in silence. And while there’s wisdom in shielding babes in Christ from such carnal expositions like the Crunk article, these type of dialogs we’re having can bring comfort and affirmation to women who are steadfast in doing things the way God designed. Because sadly, shielded or not, babes in Christ will run into this issue and need to know how to respond BEFORE the situation presents itself, because the situation WILL present itself.

    If believers aren’t discussing this topic openly and the world is, then what? This sort of reminds me of the article I posted on homosexuality because I had the same disturbance about the church simply not discussing that topic either. A professor of mine at bible college struggled with homosexually for so long, to the point he was arrested in a park for soliciting another male, with his pants down, literally. He felt there was no one at the Bible School where he worked that he could go to and “be real” without being outcast. This topic of sex and single saints seems just as “taboo.” The average preacher simply says to keep your legs crossed until you get married and moves onto the next topic.

    Again, thank you for sharing and if anyone wants to contribute an article to this site, drop me a line. The Crunk site will be publishing articles on this topic by different authors. We can do the same on this site if there’s an interest.

    Blessings,
    June

  • http://web.me.com/aspeaks/Site/DM.html Avril

    Thanks for weighing in, June! I’d be interested in contributing an article. And I’d love to hear other stories as well. This could be a really good resource!

  • http://www.mrschosen.webs.com Lisa Gore

    Simple… You either are saved or you not. You either believe that the Bible is Gods word or you don’t! U either going to heaven or hell! This is more than likely the type that hears “depart from me you worker of iniquity, I do not know u!” U can screw but you can’t get the piece of paper that goes along with it? DevilFlesh thinking right there! This sounds like a person working for the devil posing as a Christian!
    That was the dumbest trash I read in years! What the heck! She is her own God and savior.too bad she can’t save herself from hell because her blood won’t count.
    She’s concerned about sex, I’m concerned about her salvation!

    • Nykki

      “She’s concerned about sex, I’m concerned about her salvation!” *two thumbs up*

  • http://www.mrschosen.webs.com Lisa Gore

    Harsh, but let me explain.
    A lot of people are saying that they are saved and we treat them as brothers and sisters just because they say that they are. YET FRUIT, you know (you will know them by their fruits) is missing.
    I get upset as Jesus did when HE flipped the table when LIES are preached from people claiming to be of God. The bible warns us over and over about these types.
    Do I know 100% if this person is saved or not???? No I do not, but her articles makes me wonder. My advice to her if we should ever meet would be “STUDY TO SHOW THYSELF APPROVED”
    I am treating this article like an article sent from the devil himself! Because it sure ain’t from GOD!
    signed,
    The radical dogmatic one

    • Nykki

      Definitely IS an article with ideologies that originate from darkness…”our battle is not against flesh and blood.” (Eph 6)

  • Jayne Marie

    Eve, made in the image and likeness of God, possessing no sin nature, was deceived. Upon being deceived her senses were awakened and she gave the fruit she ate to her husband who was with her.

    I have wonder why Christians are so quick to call people the DECEIVER rather than pitying someone who is obviously decieved. THERE ARE MANY in the church who are weak and who are deceived. We tend to use Scripture to “rebuke” (Jesus trhew over tables) but not teach, correct, or train – which require patience and gentleness of Spirit (Jesus’ teaching style – Matt 11:29). READ ALL of 2 Tim 3… don’t stop at the part about avoiding, but see HOW we’re supposed to use the Word of God to teach, correct and instruct.

    Obviously, sharing our opinoins here doesn’t affect the author one way or another, but the problem is when we take this same approach in the church. The thing is, this woman shared how she came to her conclusion — it wasn’t like she had a vision or dream or picked up a Satanic Bible. It’s just that all the Christian women she knew never addressed HER real struggle. Or maybe she was jsut hell bent on sinning – but she mentioned TRYING to stay pure and Repenting of it so I think her struggle was real. See, while testifying is great, mentoring is better. Because sometimes your testimony can make you seem SUPER HOLY and the struggling Christian less holy aka “oh wretched man that I am…” Example: I can’t stand the story of Joseph in the Bible. Because there’s so much excluded from his story and so many questions I’m left with, he’s of no use to me. What do I mean? When I went through a LOOOOOOOOOW period, I struggled and cried and felt abandoned and neglected and lied to and everything else. People saying “Just hold on, joy comes in the morning” made me see red! Which morning were you referring to? Yesterday morning? The day before? Last month? Last year? How about the last 2 years? Which morning was I supposed to see joy??? Tomorrow morning??? Joseph was not an example to me. He made me feel like a failure of a Christian. How did he go through so many things and keep the faith??? BUT the truth is, we don’t know. We don’t know what went through his head, how he encouraged himself or if he had faith every single second of every day of his life that he would see his dreams would come true. NOW, David I like, Naomi I like, Job I like, Elijah I like, the Disciples I like. THEY were real. The Bible shows their depression, their fear, their feelings of abandonment, their confusion — all the things I was getting rebuked for feeling, and it showed God’s words to them. My favorite was Psalms 103:9,10,14 – “He will not always accuse, nor will he harbor his anger forever; he does not treat us as our sins deserve or repay us according to our iniquities… For he knows how we are formed, he remembers that we are dust.” It’s surrounded by verses about God’s patience, forgiveness, everlasting love and kindess. The tough thing about what I was going through is that I didn’t do anything wrong, I was just going through. But seems like some Christians I used to acquaint with didn’t know any scriptures for that type of scenario. *roll eyes* I know that seems unrelated, but the point is not everything that encourages you, encourages others (Joseph may encourage you but he condemns me, your testimony about your struggle may encourage you, but not someone else). And it’s not because a person is not holy or spiritual, they just need to know HOW. Kids who aren’t taught they way they are predisposed to learn, tend to drop out of school. What do you think spiritual babes who are told what to do but aren’t taught how they can do it tend to do? They drop out too. Because they feel condemned rather than empowered.

    I’m not in the least bit trying to justify this author. She is in error, but I think part of it comes from trying to “be Holy” as a verb rather than an adjective. We ARE the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. The problem is she’s trying to live in her own strength rather than in Christ Jesus. And since that’s impossible and she got tired of feeling condemned which she shouldn’t feel in Christ and she didn’t see the light at the end of the tunnel and she never understood why she was doing it anyway – she just gave up. I almost failed my math & science classes many times through out high school and went from F’s and D’s to A’s and B’s in 1 marking period. How? 1. God freed me from the stress I was going through in my personal life and 2. God opened my understanding. Once I understood what I was learning I was able to excell in it. I actually won science fairs, a science essay trophy and scholarships! How many sermons do you think she’s heard about what it means and HOW you can live in Christ, or remain in Christ or Walk in the Spirit?
    Paul was constantly tryin to correct the Corinthians about the bad doctrine that seeped in. Yes he raised his tone of voice sometimes but he also appealed to what they already knew, to common sayings of their culture and to the foundation he had previously laid. And he explained what they were witnessing and how their hardships proved what they were saying was true rather than false.

    Sometimes as Christians we tend to take the tone of voice and speech about dismissing and separating and expelling the sinful person and have nothing to do with them… and don’t bother to do what the rest of the letter did correct the error.

    Yes you have righteous anger… and if you really don’t think she’s saved what do you do take her from her false view of God’s expectation (like the woman at the well) to what God is seeking (like Jesus did)? And if you don’t care about her or can’t speak truth in love to her, at least be aware that your tone condemns people by making them more resilliant in their the flawed ways, rather than correcting or showing them HOW the grace of God that forgives can also sustain them and HOW the Holy Spirit teaches us to say no to ungodliness. You know why he teaches us? Because it’s not natural.

    OH And lest we forget, Solomon wrote an entire book about all the things he tried, figured out and thought before he came to the conclusion that the purpose of man is to please God. Job’s friends talked for darn near 40 chapters about what they thought God wanted and God told Job to pray for his friends so that God wouldn’t destroy them. Pray for this woman who once found God’s offer of life appealing, but because overwhelmed and deceived and led away by her lust. Or wash your hands and let her go to hell, because she should have never believed a lie.

  • Warrior Princess

    @ Avril:

    No, sweetheart, I didn’t think your comments were directed at me…its just that I often feel the need to give the disclaimers (since I do write forward like I often speak) when I’m speaking to people I don’t know. Plus, I was making a pretty cocky boast about my being kept in celibacy for so long—and being in “self-righteousness rehab” :), I always have my antennas up when I’m addressing Christians to cover my bases for those who may have their humility measures out. LOL! Dat’s what we self-righteous folk do….ya know. We always gauging folk’s humility and what not. LOL! Well that’s what I tend to do…so forgive me. (I’m tongue n cheek here).

    But honestly though, I realize simply it can be easy to “miss” the heart of what was being said and assume I’m proporting in those comments to being that “super Christian” sister who has reached Nirvana in Jesus. One who never has a story to share of her current struggle. Or like the sister said here–like that Joseph, the favored one; whose walk makes them feel condemned (dat’s tragic for any believer to feel this way about another believer but another post).

    One thing I’ve learned over these years walking with the Lord and feeling like “Leah” the unwanted one (in romances, in friendships, and even in family relationships (I’m 38)) is although I have heavy burdens, I just don’t put them on display. I’ve learned to commune with God IN MY hurt and disappointments. It’s taken a while but it’s such a reward and my affections grow for HIm and consequently why celibacy is the only option and has not been such “the burden”

    Unless you live with me or have lived with me before, I rarely share the fear, perplexity, frustration, and sometimes the painful of loneliness I sometimes feel.

    The times I’ve cried or feel my heart sink with fear during my cycle watching another wasted egg go down the drain using the toilet. Thinking…wow…wonder if I have any good ones left should marriage be on God’s menu for me. LOL! Hate to be so graphic. But that TMI is for anyone who would want to lower the standard Christ has raised us to in Himself and strum the “nobody’s perfect” “and let me just give in to the struggle” guitar.

    The past few years I’ve struggled through (emphasis on through) paralyzing anger with God that halted my prayer life for over a year. Not about singleness but about sending me on what felt like a wild goose chase relationally.

    I’m still not at the place of prayer I use to be. So what’s going on? How you still maintaining? Why you still speak so Highly of God. Somebody is keeping me? It’s all of God and none of me. And really sisters, I think I figured out what’s happening to me. I’M DYING. Dying to self and I’m mourning. I’m mourning all my ideas, thoughts, desires, hopes, dreams. They’ve been put in the fire and I’m watching them burn. Waiting to see if anything remains for Him the strengthen. So those of you feeling some kinda way. Unexplainable sadness that assaults your joy and peace off and on during the month….may be a physical symptom of spiritual death that’s taken place inside of you. My advice–don’t fight it. Let it lead you to inquire in His temple. And befriend Him. It is such strange, sometimes painful (as the mourning turns to mourning sin), yet delightful place.

    I could go on….

    What Cherry and Mary Jane said—further codifies my heart and mind. Again I was focused on bragging on God’s keeping of me. This being kept is something that is happening to me and I’m just in it. It feels surreal. I feel like dat foot prints poem. I’m being carried. I’m riding shotgun. Have no earthly idea–where I’m going. Like Rihanna instead of shut up and drive. I’m on some shut up and ride.

    All I know I have not time to cry that no one has had His eyes to see me. I have to live. I have to glorify Him and God is most glorified in me when I’m most satisfied in Him. So this is my business as a single woman, married women, attractive women, unattractive women, rich girl, poor girl, fly girl, fashionable girl….girly girl…..you follow me. Jesus is NOT my consolation prize because some mere mortal hasn’t had eyes to see me.

    I hope these words has cast a vision of Christ that compels you to to see if what I”ve asserted here is customizable for you!

  • http://www.mrschosen.webs.com Mrs. Chosen

    ” I can’t stand the story of Joseph in the Bible. Because…”
    ???? I believe the whole bible is God’s words and i love it all.
    this should never even be said even if it’s felt.
    This woman can’t serve 2 masters and clearly she has left and dissed the Gospel of Jesus, which leads me to believe she never really accepted him. it’s deep.
    But the truth Jayne is that God created all types. Types that will sit down , talk, teach and lovingly chat because time permits and the types that SCREAM REPENT NOW OR BURN IN HELL as they fly in and out of towns. guess which one I am :-)

  • http://www.junesjournal.com June

    Wow, looks like I have some catching up to do with the comments posted on this page from today.

    Just letting everyone know that I just responded to crunkashell’s latest response to her article on the Crunk website. (Tisha, I borrowed your “sin-sanity” word that you taught me!)

    Here’s what I said:
    —————————————

    I have a lot of personal issues and pet peeves with many of today’s churches and one of them is something you’ve mentioned… that important topics like this are not more openly discussed, especially when so many saints are struggling with these topics.

    I guess one thought that immediately jumps into my head after reading your most recent response is that Paul said it is better to marry than to burn. It would seem like he would have said something a little different, like, it is better to have extramarital sex than to burn, if it was indeed something permissible in God’s eyes. Just a thought.

    Your article provokes discussion and critical thought, which I think is good. But it’s still very shocking to hear someone professing to have a close personal relationship with the Lord make this type of stance or decision when the Bible says so clearly to flee sexual immorality, so you gotta understand the passion in people’s responses to your article. You see, for most Christians, including myself, it’s an oxymoron and it’s extremely difficult to reconcile those two things (i.e., a Christian… who engages in guilt-free extra-marital sex), especially when there is so much proven wisdom in waiting until marriage for sex with an exclusive partner.

    In fact, a lot of Christian women have testimonies who made the same decision you have and they inevitably re-decided that their heavenly “Father knows best” and then chose (again) to wait before forming any further soul ties. What made them change their minds or their heats about the matter? I believe it was the conviction of the Holy Spirit, what you might be calling “guilt.” You see, these women struggled to be celibate, but they struggled MORE to just have sex freely because a Christian isn’t happy when sinning. Christians are not sinless, we just sin less, but it doesn’t mean we are happy to be doing it. But of course your argument is that extramarital sex is not a sin.

    In general, I think your perspective doesn’t differ from the world’s perspective on this topic. I see no distinction. That’s my personal opinion to which I’m entitled, but as another sista pointed out, what is utmost in this discussion is God’s perspective. And His Word is pretty clear on sexual immorality, no matter how you exegete it, slice or dice it. It is my experience and belief that Christians sometimes go through a period of sin-sanity (insanity), somewhat like a mid-life crisis. At least, I’ve witnessed that happen to someone very close to me who experienced a season like this for 1-2 years. People questioned this person’s salvation as the person engaged in extramarital sex, unapologetically (to use your word). This person was “resolved” to not abide by any rules whatsoever, no matter how Christians prayed, encouraged, and even engaged in interventions. But two years later, the person deeply repented and is in a right frame of mind again and has ceased having extramarital sex.

    Even though I take exception with your conclusion and resolve to have unapologetic extramarital sex, I appreciate the discussions your article has sparked. As earlier stated, I think this topic is an important one to have in the church, and with all of today’s technology, blogs make it possible to conduct some of these forums of open, honest discussion. So thanks for such a well-written candid authentic exposition. (You really have a talent and gift with writing.)

    And since you are writing anonymously I hope you don’t mind answering a few personal questions for me when you have a chance. I’m more curious than anything and partly playing devil’s advocate.

    Does your sexin’ happen with an exclusive partner, or do you have casual sex with different people?

    Are your sexual partners also saved?

    Do you desire to be married someday?

    Lastly, do you believe extramarital sex is okay for married people, the same way that you believe it is okay for single people?

    What about a case where the husband becomes chronically impotent, should the wife be permitted to get to sexin’ with other men to fulfill her desires? Would she have God’s approval to do this?

    • Nykki

      @ June – fabulous!

      • http://www.mrschosen.webs.com Lisa Gore

        dito to nyk

  • http://web.me.com/aspeaks/Site/DM.html Avril

    So well said June. So well said. And I love what Jayne Marie said about Solomon. Faith is a journey. And it may be hard for some to believe, but it is possible for someone to slip up on their journey and that doesn’t have to mean that they lost all their salvation.

    It also may be hard to believe that some people have different interpretations of scripture. Of course ultimately truth is truth. But when I was in that situation I already had drawn my own conclusions about the scriptures relating to sexual immorality. So someone spouting off scriptures was of no effect. What I really needed was a sister in Christ to talk to me, tell me I’m not alone and then speak the truth in love.

    Far be it from me to tell anyone to not speak the word of God because we should always be doing that, and I love the passion of my sisters here on this site and on “Crunkashell” site. But let’s also remember what the Bible says about being “quick to listen and slow to speak.” Listen to the sister and get to the root of what’s in her heart.

  • Pingback: The Taboos Continue… « something worth waiting for

  • Nykki

    Again, June, thanks for writing this response. And, thanks to you ladies for all you offer to the discussion. I wish I could invest more time in responding, but here is are my latest thoughts before I rush off to the next thing. :-)

    Apparently, the sister who wrote the original article has a totally different interpretation of Scripture as it relates to sexual immorality. She has responded to another post on the site stating that that we need to view sex outside of marriage outside of the context of sin. She says that the Bible does not speak of pre-marital sex in the context of sexual immorality. (I’m not quoting her but this is some of the gist of her point about sexual immorality that you can see on her site.) Basically, she is saying she does not believe pre-marital sex is sinful. Obviously, within this statement there is the implication that she has new light and that the rest of us Christians (who do not believe as she does) are still in ignorance to the great freedom we have when we are single to get our freak on under grace.

    So, as most of us do, she is living out what she believes to be the truth. Trying to change her mind and convince her will be futile, because it is the Spirit that “changes” our minds.

    Now, am I justifying her position? No, because I believe that she is being deceived and is wrong. I believe that premarital sex is sinful. I believe that sex was created for husband and wife…together…with each other. And I believe this because I believe the Bible teaches this. And that is why I was convicted when I engaged in premarital sex as a Christian…because I was going against what my conscience (i.e. my new conscience energized by the Holy Spirit) was saying. For the author, she said she struggled with guilt in the past but now is “sexin’…unapologetically”. Clearly, something changed for her. She either believed the truth of the Word in regard to sex and felt guilt because of the Spirit’s conviction (as I state was my experience) or she never believed that to be true in the first place and was just following some external rule because she heard others say she should. Whatever the case, where she stands now is that she does not believe she is in sin.

    Does any of this mean she is not saved to begin with? I have no clue and would never make that judgment. Who am I? Can I read hearts and minds? No. And, if she is saved, will her current lifestyle make her lose her salvation? No. I do not believe it will because I believe the Bible teaches that our salvation is eternal…nothing can “pluck” us out of His hand.

    Do I believe that she makes a good argument about the issues of sexuality not being discussed in the Church? Sure…perhaps it should be discussed more. As a woman who ministers to other women, I know that it certainly would be beneficial.

    Can we identify with her struggles and thus make a connection with her. Most certainly. I’m definitely with that. We should not stand at a distance and shout the Word to her with the expectation that she will respond well to that tactic. However, as we attempt to BE the Word to her by speaking the truth in love, etc., we still need to SPEAK the Word regarding the issue. And in doing that we should trust that the God of the Word will accomplish what HE intends by the Word…because it IS living, it IS active, and it CAN generate a change of heart/mind.

    And regardless of how much we identify with and support this woman in her struggle to be heard and understood (something every human desires), we still need to take a firm stance against those things that are against our Lord and the Gospel. We do have a charge to contend for our faith. The belief system she is promoting is destructive and poisonous to the Body of Christ. We are lukewarm enough as it is! If God desires holiness and purity for His Bride, why should not we, the Bride, do what we can do to contribute to that purification? And what is that contribution? Speaking the truth in love (the Word…even if it hurts), being the hands and feet of Jesus (still listening and loving this sister), and redirecting all of our attention back to the One who gives us all this grace we talk about…God.

    Just my thoughts for now…thanks for reading! :-)

    • http://www.mrschosen.webs.com Lisa Gore

      so good sis Nyk, this should be printed out and discussed in a forum! good stuff!

  • http://www.mrschosen.webs.com Lisa Gore

    I POSTED ONE MORE TIME BEFORE I HAD TO LET GO AND ONLY PRAY. (only meaning not type nothing else to her)
    ——————————————————
    i just want to add this in here, even if i was not saved and didn’t look at sex before marriage as a sin I wouldn’t want to be giving up my good stuff to a guy not willing to marry me and thought of me as just some botty call, or just some lady he cares for so much and wants to have sex with but he doesn’t love me enough to want to make me all his. an old saying “why should they buy the cow when they get the milk for free?” i don’t know.
    no commitment means he can have more sex partners, that could lead to STD’s and condoms can lead me to never bearing a child and only having sex! argh it’s just no real win! even women who don’t call them selves Christians don’t want to give up their sex to dudes willing to just hit and walk away when ever they get good and ready.
    Know the WORTH of your gift that lyes between your legs.
    that’s all I’m done

  • disqus_bQQCRIUxbN

    I’d really like to thank the
    author for posting an article such as this, and also for her critical review of
    it. She reviewed the issue from both sides. Too often, Christians are divisive
    and obstinate in their views; seeing issues from the lens of their own
    perspective. Christ was not divisive. He sought the greater good and where
    possible to meet within the greater good of differing principles.

    Studied scholars know that the
    original reference to fornication refers to sex with prostitutes. There is a
    difference between immoral sex and pre-marital sex, and adultery. Both the old
    and new testament denounce immoral and adulterous sex. Consenting, non-immoral,
    non-adulterous sex is not is a sin. We have to use our dictionaries and be able
    to rightly divide the Word and properly read for understanding and
    comprehension before applying band-aided one-size-fits-all approach toward
    biblical rules.

    Thank you for this often
    overlooked topic. We are saved. There is no earning salvation and no merit or
    one-upsmanship within the body of Christ. Sharing myself with a fellow
    consenting non-married Christian in a non-immoral way as a way to spiritually
    connect on a physically intimate level in the pursuit of marriage, or physical
    gratification is not a sin. I am saved by Grace. I cannot put myself in hell
    just like I cannot put myself in heaven. We can freely discuss and debate but let’s
    not put people in hell or condemn them especially, when our Father who came to
    this world in the form of Christ did not.

    ~Many Continued Blessings

  • Anon

    The bible says “flee fornication” and those who do it shall not inherit the kingdom of God. It’s pretty clear, the person who wrote the article is also described as a wandering star, whose god is their own belly following their lusts, feeding themselves without fear. A scary position to be in.